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Carn

Semi Pro

Date of registration: Aug 12th 2008

Posts: 87

Gender: male

Location: Jhb

1

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 8:25am

Buffer test from 1st Meguiars detailing day

Ok, where to start...

First off thanks again to Greg and the Meguiars team for hosting us for the day and the use of their pads, machines and products as well as for lunch and refreshments and the samples they provided for those who asked ;)

Thanks also goes out to Newco for providing us with a demo Flex 3401 for the day, Woodie for use of his DeWalt 443 (is a 443 if I am not mistaken ?) and Springbok for the use of his G220. Makita BO6040 and 9227 rotary belonged to Meguiars'. Last but not least, a big thanks to Siya for providing the elbow grease ;)

Quick pic of the DA machines (DeWalt was hiding in Woodie's boot.....fear of the forced rotation DA's and the new ninja kid 'G220' :D )




Of the 3 pictured machines the Flex is by far the most ergonomic (IMHO) and also surprisingly one of the lightest. Whilst we didn't weigh the individual machines the Makita felt the heaviest (probably as a result of the large metal dust collector) followed closely by the Flex and G220 which felt to be of a similar weight.

Here we have Rustbucket preparing the panel for us with a quick wash down and clay with Meguiars Fine Detail Clay.




The clean panel was then taped up and sectioned into 5 (more or less) equally sized parts and then scuffed up with a scotch pad. Only after rubbing them with the pad did I realise how severely a scotch pad can destroy your paint :D

Something I only though of afterwards would have been to scuff up the entire panel prior to taping to ensure a more even and consistent surface for each section. Doing it in sections meant I probably used slightly varying degrees of pressure with the scotch pad as can be seen in the following pic.



1st up we hit the panel with a Meg's polishing pad and M83 limited to 2 minutes per machine for each section to try keep things fair. Woodie ran his DeWalt, Siya his 6040, myself the Flex, Springbok his G220 and Rusty let rip with the 9227. One drawback we realised after the 1st pass was that we all probably used varying degrees of pressure on the machines.

Here are some close up before and afters for each section.

DeWalt 443 before and after



Makita 6040 before and after



Flex 3401 before and after



G220 before and after



9227 rotary before and after



From the 1st pass we see that the 6040 achieved the best correction, even edging out the rotary. Due to the fact that the 6040 bested the rotary I can only conclude that either a.) the panel was not scuffed evenly b.) that the results were skewed as a result of different individuals applying different amounts of pressure, etc or c.) a rotary isn't all it's made out to be :D As a result of this, as well as the fact that the scuff marks were still very much alive and well, we decided to let Siya manhandle each machine with a Meg's cutting pad and some new Ultra Cut compound.

Here are the pics, again after a single 2 min pass with Ultra cut on a red cutting pad with Siya operating all the machines. Pics were taken inside and then again outside for a better view in direct sunlight.

DeWalt 443



Makita 6040



Flex 3401



G220



Makita 9227 rotary



At the end of the day the results were surprising but in all honesty I think the test was flawed in many ways (IMHO). Only afterwards having had a think about how we did things did I realise we should have made a few changes and done a few things differently.

Despite the errors I feel we made, I think I will put the results down as inconclusive but a good 1st attempt. To be fair and despite the shortcomings and inconsistencies of this test, the Makita 6040 clearly won hands down, besting even the rotary. Chatting with Siya afterwards it was clear he had his own thoughts and opinions about this but I will let him explain as he was the only one to use all 5 machines back to back on the day ;)

Once again thanks to everyone for allowing us this opportunity, stay tuned for v2 of the buffer test soon ;)
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Starvekos

Sage Detailer

Date of registration: Jul 11th 2006

Posts: 1,009

Gender: male

Location: Johannesburg

2

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 2:30pm

This was an eagerly awaited faceoff, as soon as the business end of the detailing class was finished Carn and Rustbucket started laying the scene for the heavyweight clash. I won’t comment on the Makita 9227CB rotary buffer, there is no argument that this is standard equipment when it comes to serious paint correction.

Packaging

DeWalt 443
I don’t know what packaging the DeWalt comes in. Woodie just tosses it into his huge steel toolbox. Sean please chime in.

Makita BO6040
The machine comes in a hard green plastic carry case. Compact and the machine fits snug and the carry case does not take up too much space.

Flex 3401
Carn showed me the branded supple carry case in the guise of a 24 can coolerbag. Looks classy and there is ample space for the machine, extension cord (if you decide to carry one – not part of the package) and a couple of pads.

Meguiars G220
The most compact case out of the machines on display. I am sure Springbok carried the machine on board the flight back to Cape Town without battering and eyelid or raising concerns amongst airport staff suspecting that he might be an assassin. The only draw back is that you have to dismantle the backing plate to fit the machine in to the cast inside the case.


Handling

DeWalt 443
This polisher is compact, probably the same size as the Meguairs G220 sans the handle. Very easy to control.

Makita BO6040
The heaviest machine here and has the worst ergonomics of all the polishers trialed. Don’t like the on/off switch on the side and the speed setting right in the rear of the handle.

Flex 3401
Best ergonomics, it’s light and easy to control. The lip styled handle is neat and the switches are well placed.

Meguiars G220
A compact machine that feels solid. Even at high reps, you feel that you are always in control. A number of users don’t like the handle or they think that it impairs ones abilities to follow the desired polishing technique.

Correction

DeWalt 443
I didn’t get a chance to confirm this with Woodie, but I got the impression that the machine was not operating optimally. I cranked up the pace yet the head kept rotating at the same low speed. Needless to say, it produced the least impressive results

Makita BO6040
The best polisher based on correction results. The polisher was difficult to control when I bumped it up to speed 5 but it does the business. The section of the panel stood out compared to sections for the other three polishers.

Flex 3401
A respectable second position for the Flex. The results were impressive and if the Makita wasn’t in the line up we would have all walked away convinced that the Flex is the beast that we have already about on UK and US forums. The Makita was a bit of a party pooper.

Meguiars G220
Correction ability lagged the Flex but again, it produced a decent finish considering the original state of the scrap bonnet.

Conclusion
Firstly, it was a pity that the DeWalt was not operating at the manufacturer’s setting so I can’t judge it based on Saturday.

This is a difficult one to call. The Flex and G220 produced similar results while the Makita outshone both polishers. However, all three have their drawbacks. The G220 is a good all rounder but it has to be dismantled before tucking away. The Makita produced amazing results but it’s retailing at R4,200, it has high running costs (cookie cutter effect reduces the working life of Meguiars pads) or you will need to buy a Meguiars’ backing plate. At the introductory price, the Flex is good proposition but beyond R4,000 I would consider the cheaper G220.

If you already own a Meguiars G220 or Makita BO6040, then I would stick with those machines. Rather perfect your technique and start looking at building up experience with a rotary buffer. If you don’t have a DA polisher, than I would consider the Flex followed by the G220 and then the Makita. This does not follow logic considering the results from Saturday.
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freerider

Professional

Date of registration: Apr 21st 2008

Posts: 270

Gender: male

Location: Cape Town

3

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 3:02pm

very interesting conclusion there! I have my name on the list for a flex, but I would like to actually use it and compare the performance to my BO6040 before actually going ahead.
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Rich

Master Detailer

Date of registration: Jan 14th 2008

Posts: 435

Gender: male

Location: J-Bay

4

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 3:13pm

Good thread.... This is going to be a long one I'm sure!
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Carn

Semi Pro

Date of registration: Aug 12th 2008

Posts: 87

Gender: male

Location: Jhb

5

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 3:42pm

Thanks for your input Siya, I am sure everyone appreciates it ;)

What are your thoughts regarding the validity and accuracy of the results from this test by the way ?

IMHO I think the test and it's results are flawed and pretty inconclusive, there are a number of things I would do differently in the next test. My reasoning behind doubting the accuracy of the results we achieved is based purely on the fact that the Makita 9227C rotary was beaten in terms of correction capabilities by both forced rotation DA's as well as the G220.

Having had a think abouot this afterwards I can name a few aspects where I think we went wrong :

1.) Scuffing the sections individually as opposed to doing the entire panel.
2.) Keep the working sizes the same.
3.) Have the same individual operate the buffers through both passes to ensure consistent pressure is used throughout.
4.) Correcting 1/2 of each section initially and then correcting the other 1/2 with a different machine to eliminate inconsistencies in the actual sections being polished.

Those are just a few off the top of my head :D

Discuss

**insert popcorn smiley here**
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Woodie6250

Sage Detailer

Date of registration: Oct 2nd 2007

Posts: 992

Gender: male

Location: Johannesburg

6

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 3:42pm


DeWalt 443
I don’t know what packaging the DeWalt comes in. Woodie just tosses it into his huge steel toolbox. Sean please chime in.


Comes in a cardboard box - no case supplied.


DeWalt 443
I didn’t get a chance to confirm this with Woodie, but I got the impression that the machine was not operating optimally. I cranked up the pace yet the head kept rotating at the same low speed. Needless to say, it produced the least impressive results


This is how it has been operating from day 1. I have not compared it to other DeWalts, so I do not know if my machine is producing substandard performance.


Conclusion
Firstly, it was a pity that the DeWalt was not operating at the manufacturer’s setting so I can’t judge it based on Saturday.

Once again, I cannot confirm that the machine was not operating as per the manufacturer's standards.

My overall conclusions are very much along the lines of Siya's. If you already have a Makita 6040 or G220 - stick with what you've got. If you don't have a machine and are in the market for one, then the introductory offer on the Flex that Carn has is a definite yes.

Outside of the introductory offer, my first choice would be to go for a G220 + a Makita 9227 rotary as both machines combined would only set you back a few hundred Rand more than the Flex and you would have arguably the best rotary on the market as well as a solid DA.
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Starvekos

Sage Detailer

Date of registration: Jul 11th 2006

Posts: 1,009

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Location: Johannesburg

7

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 3:56pm

very interesting conclusion there! I have my name on the list for a flex, but I would like to actually use it and compare the performance to my BO6040 before actually going ahead.


Don, I agree. Get hold of a demo before committing. You and Megesh have done some amazing work with the Makita BO6040, with your experience and technique you should be looking at the Makita 9227CB rotary than another DA polisher.

Make sure you attend the Meguiars Cape Town detailing Day. Mike will give you tips on rotary buffing that will have you yearning for one.
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freerider

Professional

Date of registration: Apr 21st 2008

Posts: 270

Gender: male

Location: Cape Town

8

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 6:02pm

ouch check out the pricing from this site http://www.executool.co.za/catalog/index.php?cPath=333_337

What is the normal price of the 9227CB?
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Woodie6250

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Date of registration: Oct 2nd 2007

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9

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 7:26pm


What is the normal price of the 9227CB?


You should be able to get it for +-R2500
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freerider

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Date of registration: Apr 21st 2008

Posts: 270

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10

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 9:29pm

wow, so executool are actually reasonably priced on that then, at R2399
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Springbok

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11

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 9:49pm

You semi-professional guys should seriously consider graduating to a rotary IMHO.
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MeTsU

Member

Date of registration: Jul 15th 2008

Posts: 36

Gender: male

Location: Port Elizabeth

12

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 10:44pm

DAMN! Means I should maybe take up the price I was offered by a company I used to deal with - came in around R1800 (incl. VAT). :D

The Flex looks awesome, but the money is the issue for me unfortunately at the moment. :( I've got my name down for a G220, and even that is quite a bit of tom (that I should'nt be spending should I say... :D ).

Mmm...spanner in the works...
Matteo - 2005 Polo 1.9TDi Sportline - Sooty
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freerider

Professional

Date of registration: Apr 21st 2008

Posts: 270

Gender: male

Location: Cape Town

13

Wednesday, August 13th 2008, 10:49am

DAMN! Means I should maybe take up the price I was offered by a company I used to deal with - came in around R1800 (incl. VAT). :D

The Flex looks awesome, but the money is the issue for me unfortunately at the moment. :( I've got my name down for a G220, and even that is quite a bit of tom (that I should'nt be spending should I say... :D ).

Mmm...spanner in the works...


Unfortunately with things like this you just have to take the plunge and buy! because if you wait until you actually dont have something else that you should spend the bucks on.... you will never get one!
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MeTsU

Member

Date of registration: Jul 15th 2008

Posts: 36

Gender: male

Location: Port Elizabeth

14

Wednesday, August 13th 2008, 11:00am


Unfortunately with things like this you just have to take the plunge and buy! because if you wait until you actually dont have something else that you should spend the bucks on.... you will never get one!
That's VERY true... :D

I'm trying to do some calcs - will have to do them tonight at home...with regards to the G220 vs. Flex story. Both seem very capable machines!
Matteo - 2005 Polo 1.9TDi Sportline - Sooty
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Rich

Master Detailer

Date of registration: Jan 14th 2008

Posts: 435

Gender: male

Location: J-Bay

15

Wednesday, August 13th 2008, 12:29pm

You semi-professional guys should seriously consider graduating to a rotary IMHO.


I agree..... You can't get the best results without correcting first in most case's .... and a DA just can't cut and to basic ruff work like a Rotary!!!

- You need a DA, get a G220 over a Makita!

- Get a Makita Rotary.... best by far!!!!

You do need both DA and Rotary!!!

I think most people are afraid of the Rotary, just get one, get scrap panels and hit it!!!
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